First-Person Shouter

Yeah, pretty much agree 100% with this article here, buddy.

Customizing your appearance?

Sounds pretty sexy.

sounds good. Can’t wait.

I love customization. I love TF2. Bring it on Valve :)

Hats, you say?

Let me know when they add monocles. Then we’re talking.

Ahhhhh you tricked me with the title. It’s good to know they’re just planning on them being cosmetic right now though.

They based their entire art design on recognizable shapes and outlines: a Heavy is instantly recognizable at any distance and from any angle. Now they’re adding silly hats.

Aw, man! I’ve already BEEN customizing my appearence (and that of others) through custom skins.

I love how half of the comments on Shacknews are as if they didn’t even read the article. They still bitch about TF2 becoming an RPG.

“OH NOES I HATE CHANGE OR ADDITIONS”

Ugh, I can’t believe how upset everyone was getting about this update when Valve hadn’t even announced anything specific. All of those rumors about random drops and hats modifying stats? Those were just wild speculations picked up by overzealous fans and touted as truth.

I admit I was freaking out a /1337le/ bit about this..

Why are Valve using this game as a god damn early beta? It was a complete game before the Medic update. I was sure the class updates will just bring some gamemodes and variaty, and here they go drasticlly away from TF2’s original style. I mean, what the hell? Why are they doing this? I am sick and tired of the inconsistency in this game after every damn update. They hadn’t fixed a lot of the mess they made in the last few, and instead they come up with some radical crap. Why don’t they just go ahead and give the game a new title; “Team Fortress 2.x Work In Progress”.

oh yeah, chris, you might want to merge ‘my gaming life in charts’ with ‘chartcore gamer, over there to the left and up a bit.

ALSO: Did you play Mega Man 2 and Final Fantasy all those years ago? well there are now extremely awesome rock-raps for them both!link to mega man one is in my name. the ff one should be in related vids.

I’m also somewhat disappointed with the fact that randomized weaps won’t be dropped in-game (at least for now).

Nonomu, you should know Valve LOVES updates, and so do most of us. If you don’t like games getting updates, you should never buy a multiplayer game ever again.

I’m quite like the sound of what they’re doing, although it’s a shame that random drops would be compromised by servers cheating.

@OctaneHugo

I like updates. I think updates are great, to every game. I just think Valve is going too far away from the original TF2. Updates are supposed to add and fix content, not mutate the game beyond recognition. Wheather I buy a multiplayer game or not is none of your business.

For example, what if they removed drops and invatory from World of Warcraft, and instead bring an achievement system to earn weapons and items? Don’t cry, it’s a FREE update!

@ Nonomu: STOP. Valve is bringing these changes in to untie unlocks from achievements. Unlockables was supposed to be upgrades (see Medic update),but Valve guys have changed their mind about it - now they’re supposed to be alternatives. Achievments,which is effectively “levelling”,don’t fit into this scheme.

So… micropayments then?

Nonomu, your analogy has one fatal flaw:

There’s no such thing as a “free update” to WoW. Everyone (other than pirates) pays $13-$15 a month for whatever updates WoW may get — this on top of buying the game in the first place, and the cost of “expansions”.

Bitching about balance issues in the content of WoW makes sense. You literally pay for those patches out of pocket. I don’t think anyone can pretend they haven’t gotten their money’s worth out of TF2 by now, since packaged in the Orange Box it essentially cost the consumer a whopping $10.

So fuck yeah, bring on the clown hats and exploding bowties. I’m curious where this is going.

That was my point, because WoW dosen’t have such free updates it must be cery great to have one.

By “cery” I meant “really”. Yah.

I don’t really think that this is necessary by Valve, since they already have their class packs system, which both improve the gameplay (or not), and bring new players to the game with free weekends or price reductions etc. This just emans that every time they promise to bring out a new class pack, they can take longer to do it, while they fiddle with the hats (btw I’m trying to imagine the Heavy with a hat - his head’s kinda distinguishable right now, god knows what he’ll look like with a hat)

The Heavy’s hat will be a football helmet. I’m pretty sure he’ll still be recognizable in it.

Now your argument doesn’t even make sense. How exactly does adding silly hats and changing the upgrades system go too far away from the original TF2? And if you want the original TF2, you don’t like updates. :/

Team Fortress 2 will not stay the same. Humans don’t.

Wow, I didn’t actually think Nonomu198 and I had such similar views regarding unlockable content. I’m not sure if I agree with his analogy involving World of WarCraft, but in general the game was fine without unlockable content. We could discuss this now or in a forum.

Remember, they said it’s only cosmetic for now; they may very well have some effect on the gameplay in the future.

Copy+pasted from my post in the ÜberCharged forums:

Something I’d like to point out:
“Robin Walker: Right now they’re all cosmetic only, but it’s obviously more interesting if they become more than that, so we’re still thinking about that. Shipping them without gameplay changes seems like a good way to tackle the first problem, which is to ensure we don’t break our silhouette based class identification.”
I’m guessing Mr. Walker doesn’t realize they already have done so to a certain degree. I remember in the developers’ commentary they mentioned something about distinct class shapes, and that if you saw a player on the battlefield, you would be able to instantly recognize what class the player was and what he was capable of doing. For example, if you saw a Medic, you would see his silhouette and visuals are distinct from the other classes and right off the bat know that he would have a Syringe Gun, Medigun, and a Bone Saw and heal people and be able to give players invulnerability for ten seconds. If you saw a Scout, you would know he could double-jump, have that speed advantage, and wield a Scattergun, pistol, and bat.

Now, with the introduction of unlockables, if you see a Medic, he could have any combination between the Blutsauger, Kritzkrieg, Über Saw, Syringe Gun, Medigun, and Bone Saw. The Scout could have any combination among the Scattergun, pistol, Sandman, Bonk!, aluminum bat, and the Force-a-Nature. It’s not game-breaking, but I think they’ve contradicted their original design philosophy regarding class recognition and such.

(This was especially true with the Pyro when the Back Burner gave +50 HP to those who wielded it. Even if you didn’t have it out, you had a significant advantage over Pyros who only used the standard Flame Thrower (and that was before a larger number of players began to appreciate and effectively utilize the Compression Blast’s potential). From a distance, it was difficult to see if a Pyro had a Back Burner or the default primary (although in those days the majority wielded the former), totally in conflict with Valve’s own reasons for making class distinction important. That Pyro you saw on the battlefield could either be the same weak class you were used to seeing or a freaking tank. Thankfully, Valve realized their error and removed the 50 HP boost from the Back Burner.)

Also, OctaneHugo, updates are only natural and completely acceptable changes to the game. For example, it used to be the Soldier, not the Pyro, that was the best close quarters combat class, because damage reduction allowed Soldiers to fire rockets up close at targets without sustaining much damage themselves, and they had 32 rockets in reserve; Pyros were quite weak in comparison with greater fall off damage reduction in their Flame Throwers. Eventually, Valve updated the game by reducing the amount of ammo Soldiers had to discourage rocket spamming, and removed damage reduction from their own rockets, and reduced the fall off damage reduction for the Pyro’s Flame Thrower, adding balance to the classes. That is acceptable and reasonable. I wish more developers gave their products the same amount of attention and effort in maintaining them as time goes on, and I applaud Valve for doing so. However, that does not raise them above criticism.

What is questionable is when Valve adds in new content that radically changes the gameplay to something different to what it was before. The game already had balance issues and problems to deal with without the introduction of unlockables. I yearn for the earlier days before the Gold Rush Update; why can’t I enjoy the game for what it was before Valve had to add all this extra content that has such a greatly impacting effect on consistency and gameplay?

Too many words in these comments, what happened to the days where we’d just laugh at Chris’ jokes about calling Valve fags and move on?
Oh right, Andy.
I miss Concerned, those were the golden days.

IT’S FUNNY HATS.
FUNNY HATS YOU CAN LOOK AT.
FUNNY HATS THAT FIT THE STYLE OF THE GAME.
FUNNY HATS THAT DO NOT RADICALLY CHANGE THE GAME.

I CAN STILL TELL A HEAVY IS A HEAVY EVEN IF HE’S WEARING A SOMBRERO.

Case closed.

If you care so much to complain about a free update, get the Orange Box on PS3 or 360. They haven’t changed at all from the original game. Better yet, stfu.

Man, I was just about to put together an impassioned defense of updates until the new one downloaded and broke the game.

Way to (literally) ruin TF2, Valve

PS: I hope Valve gives in and releases a “vanilla” mode so that the boring people whining about the sacred purity of their video games go play on those servers and leave me alone.

Wow, they are really adding a lot to TF2.
I’m sure whatever they come up with will be fine, but hopefully they will keep (as the interviewer suggested) a “vanilla” version.
Mind you, I’m playing it on the PS3 and it hasn’t been updated in yonks, it’d be quite weird to play the PC version (that I own) with all these funky new bells and whistles.

Mr. Brit, like I said in my last post, just because Valve is gracious enough to add so much content to the game doesn’t mean it’s perfect or above criticism. Again, just because it’s free or an update doesn’t mean it’s not under judgment.

Plumberduck, I hope they put in a vanilla mode, too.

Once again, you’re complaining about the frequent updates. It’s -Valve-. -Steam-. Did you really expect to NOT have the game radically change over the course of a year? They build up.

I never once complained about the frequency of updates. I’m complaining about the content of certain updates, specifically the class packs and how significantly they impact the game for the worse. Standard balance changes like the reduction of the Demo Man’s ammo or increasing the precision of the Heavy’s primary weapon is similar to what developers do for all their games (at least, they should), and is acceptable.

Wow, noobie, I am completely in agreement with your first post up there. I made a post on GameFAQs expressing similar sentiments.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=437678&topic=45675471

As you can see, the majority of responses were pragmatic, arguing that really, unlockables didn’t change the core class roles enough to affect how you interacted with a given player. I guess I was more in love with the beauty of each class being exactly what it appeared to be to actually think about how the game would play. I still think unlockables compromise the core principles of the game’s design, but I’ve learned to accept them. But silly hats are not something I can so easily swallow, especially when they’re purely cosmetic.

Again, I don’t think unlockables are game breaking, but they certainly have issues regarding balancing and consistency (and I agree with you that they contradict Valve’s design regarding class distinction), and the fact that I just want to play vanilla-style.

I’m not so sure if I would agree that unlockables haven’t changed the core class roles to affect how one interacts with a given player; a Medic with a Kritzkrieg is better off using a different style of play than a Medic with the standard invulnerability ÜberCharge, a Pyro with a Back Burner plays differently than one that uses the Compression Blast, a Scout with a Sandman engages in combat different to that of one that doesn’t carry it, etc. I agree that “unlockables compromise the core principles of the game’s design,” and that I’ve also learned to accept the fact that they are very appealing to the majority of players and that the effect they have on the game isn’t enough to break it (but it’s not very, very, very, very far).

What I find amusing is that some of the people who would argue against me for the sake of unlockables would find distaste in the thought of cosmetic head-wear (which I do, too).

Reminder: You are talking about video games. They are built for play. Silly, stupid play. If you’re getting outraged because the alcoholic Scottish cyclops is getting an afro, please step back, because you’re treating them like they’re <a href=”http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SeriousBusiness”Serious Business

That is, Serious Business

Plumberduck: That doesn’t validate your defense of unlockables, nor does it mean Valve shouldn’t receive criticism for the issues they’ve brought upon their own game. “It’s just a game, get over it, just have fun,” isn’t a suitable argument; there are plenty of people who are passionate about their hobby. They have a right and reason to speak up if something’s wrong with the game.

Believe it or not, people have a problem enjoying this “silly, stupid play” if the game lacks this thing called balance and the developer is making it worse. I’m not getting outraged like I’m getting red-in-the-face exploding in anger, but it’s upsetting to see how Valve is, to me, making the game worse.

You are spending time posting long, well-thought-out arguments, though. Which, since you’re on the Internet, is a colossal waste of time.

@ Plumberduck: no,n00bie is more like <a href=”http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StopHavingFunGuys”

n00bie,please STFU. You may dislike unlockables,but majority likes them,since they can (and sometimes do) bring new and intresting ways to play. I really really hope that Valve will put “no unlocks” mode especially for stat wankers like you,so you will shut up and won’t bother everyone else with “BAN TEH UNLOKCS”.

Damn,it should be

Perhaps they should set up a new mode for TF2, one where you play only with the class balance updates and not any of the updates + weapon unlocks. One for more professional players and one for the rest of us who enjoy all the new things.

@Lack_26
I want to play with unlockables. I like how they bring more variety to the existing game. I just don’t like how Valve is trying to drasticlly change the game, and that’s before they fixed some of the mess the last updates did. Heck, maybe the new inventory and drops will be fun! It centenly dosen’t seem to fit the “pick-up-and-play”, but I don’t know! Do the guys at Valve know? They can’t, because it is entirely different than what we know about TF2. No, they will just test it on the community. Take the Backburner, Natascha and the Sandman for example of how bad the way they release content can be. No one in their right mind would test this and say “Boy, this is perfectly balanced, unbugged, and makes the game more fun! Let’s release this!”. No, Valve just went ahead with the new ideas, and without much thought (I hope. I don’t think anyone who can make a game as fun and balanced as TF2 can think these unlockables were just right for it.) and waited for the community to respond. They weapons were bad, bugged, unbalanced, game ruining, whatever. Nobody liked them (except some who liked the Sandman. I don’t know why.). It took Valve monthes to fix Natascha (which still sucks), and I still think the Sandman is aweful. I know communication with the community is a great tool, but that’s just abusing it. I don’t enjoy playing a WIP game where the developers constantly fix what’s intact and leave the bugs alone for the greater good of new content, just to wait a couple of weeks after it’s release to hear the community out and fix it (partly). I know updates can’t be perfect, but can’t they beta test some more? Can’t they fix what’s wrong before they go on to something new? Why do they introduce new content (hats and drops) nobody asked for instead of new maps and gamemodes?

@Jmborb
Sadly Chris no longer does these jokes.

I don’t think unlockables should be banned. I do pine for a day when each class was exactly what it appeared to be, and nothing more, but I understand that the unlockables bring variety to the game. But when you get to the point where you give players silly hats for no reason, it’s just too much for me. Nobody WANTS silly hats. They violate the “silhouette-based identification system” for no actual practical benefit, and even if you do give them stat bonuses, then you’ve created dozens of subclasses. Team Fortress 2 was originally about nine classes, Pyro, Heavy, Medic, etc. Now we have to deal with Natascha Heavy, Minigun Heavy, Backburner Pyro, Airblast Pyro, Kritzkrieg Medics and Medigun Medics. If Valve takes the extra step of assigning (non-trivial) bonuses to silly hats, we’ll have Natascha Football Heavy, Natascha Heavy, Minigun Football Heavy, Minigun Heavy, etc. This is class dilution. We started with rigidly-defined classes, and we’re going further and further away from them.

And even if we don’t go down this path, we’re still stuck with a game with silly hats, which, irrationally, infuriate me.

YEAH, I just HATE when games give you more content and variety, leading to hours of fun gameplay, for FREE. Valve should just stop trying to give your customers enjoyment with these lousy updates that offer TOTALLY optional sidegrades. I mean, WTF? Hats? Are you TRYING to make our gameplay unique and different? I want my less deep, less customizable classes back. I want it so that there will be NO MORE variety in my gameplay. Why do I need variety when I am busy being bored of the same old thing? Cant I just spend hours playing the pyro with out all of this new additional content, offering potential for new styles of play, bugging me? Valve, just stop trying to add any fun in our games. In fact, these classes offer way to much variety and new experiences WITHOUT the added content!!! Next update, why cant valve just degrade all of the classes so they just all have regular guns. Get rid of the hp and speed differences too (that may lead to enjoyment). And dont even get me started on those pesky, unique and interesting maps.

// TF2 MMO
“TF_MMO_LFG” “Looking For Group”
“TF_MMO_Quest1″ “You must kill %s1 %s2 to complete this quest.”
“TF_MMO_Monster1″ “Boars”
“TF_MMO_Monster2″ “Rats”
“TF_MMO_Monster3″ “Bats”
“TF_MMO_Monster4″ “Wolves”
“TF_MMO_Monster5″ “Spiders”

I lol’d.

Mays, you miss my point entirely. Adding billions of options for each class ruins the entire point of having nine solidly-defined classes. If you want a game with customization, go play COD4, where any soldier may have any weapon with any additional perks they desire. I recognize that TF2 is obviously not there yet, but I’m wary of taking any steps down that road. Extra weapons and abilities don’t differentiate the classes, like you seem to think they do, either. At best, they offer alternative styles of play, at worst they help the classes bleed into each other. The +50 Backburner made the Pyro a Soldier, for example. Valve does seem to be making an effort to make sure unlockables don’t cover a class’ weaknesses, and that’s a good thing.

I also don’t know why you think taking away unlockables would lead to a lack of variety: chess starts from a single given position, where you can see every piece on the board, and you know every piece’s abilities at all times. Despite this, the game has enormous variety. And, of course, there are nine classes for you to switch between when you get bored.

Hats aren’t optional. No matter your personal feelings on the matter, you WILL see a Heavy with a football helmet in EVERY game you play. Unlockables are similarly not optional: whether or not you use them, your opponents will.

I have no idea what you’re talking about with “unique and different” gameplay. Silly hats have no impact at all on the gameplay.

Your comparison between the types of variety added by unlockable weapons and the types of variety that come from having nine classes and different maps is flawed. With nine classes and different maps, the joy comes from seeing these classes interact in different settings with different strategic options. When you see a Heavy, you know exactly how to deal with him, and he knows this, and you both act in a way that maximises your chances based on the environment. But you don’t know what weapons that Heavy has. Perhaps he has a shotgun, or perhaps he has a sandvich. If he has a sandvich and you’ve ambushed him, he’s an easy kill. If he has a shotgun, he’ll put up a harder fight. This ambiguity makes it harder to make tactical decisions. The variety that comes from unlockable weapons, on the other hand, is simply the novelty of shooting different guns.

Now, these posts are getting ridiculously long. I don’t think I’ll make another reply, should you choose to post another rebuttal.

Whoa, sharing and expressing my own opinions and thoughts is a waste of time on the Internet is a big waste of time I guess, Plumberduck. Once again, I apologize for wanting to engage in some discussion.

Kollega, stop putting words in my mouth and curb the attitude, I don’t understand why you’re acting like such a jerk. I never once said, “Ban the unlocks.” Just because the majority approves of it doesn’t mean it makes for more balanced, better gameplay; that’s a fallacy. Also, how am I a “stat wanker”? You never did address my response to your comment at ÜberCharged, anyway.

I’m in strong agreement with Agent_Koopa.

I would like to have that in game effecting gear.

Also WHERE THE HELL WAS NONNY!!!!! YOU LIED

ok. im calm now, but you did make a promise chris

n00bie,just… go other way. I don’t like you,but don’t hate on you either. Sometimes,situation just calls for being a total jerk. For example,when you try to hate idea of unlockables. Yes,i KNOW that balance is extremely fragile,but unlocks add VARIETY. Of course,they ARE unbalanced,crappy,etcetera. But they give new and intresting ways to play TF2.

There are more benefits than flaws in unlocks. And best of all,they’re FREE,and more variety provided for free never hurt anyone. I REALLY REALLY HOPE that Valve will do some kind of vanilla mode,and people like you won’t bugger anyone with their idea of “No unlocks = better”.

That,and your big wall-o-text responses are hard to read.

What i meant is that everyone should get their portion of fun WITHOUT STEPPING ON ANYONE ELSE’S. So hating on unlocks in general is BAD idea. Well,i already said it,and will say it again. “Vanilla mode”.

Kollega, our extremely different opinions doesn’t warrant you being an asshole and telling me to “STFU, GTFO, and jab a blunt fork in my eye.” If all you meant to say was “that everyone should get their portion of fun WITHOUT STEPPING ON ANYONE ELSE’S,” then you could have said so, instead of using your offensive remarks. That would have been too reasonable and much more mature, I guess?

I’m not going to go into the argument explaining why more variety isn’t always a good thing. And you should realize I too want a vanilla mode for TF2, too. In fact, that was what I originally proposed in my story on ÜberCharged. Although I think they shouldn’t have been in the game, never once did I ever say to you that I wanted them to be removed from the game. Never once did I say, “Valve, remove the unlocks!” I never wanted to step on anybody else’s fun, I just wanted to have my own. I never said, “They should ban unlocks.” Did I, fool? :P

Is this the wrong time to propose each class should have alternate costumes that create difference sub-classes?

in case some of you haven’t noticed, theres an update on LiO. Dont get your hopes up, its an update telling us there will be an update, meant to subdue the masses while Chris escapes to Hawaii.

if you cant be stuffed, he said there will be update within this week. Perhaps.

@ the late, lamented Agent_Koopa: Increasing the tactical possibilities for a class is not a bad thing. Facing an ubered Heavy and a Kritz’d soldier is a more tactically interesting situation than facing two ubered Heavies. The fact of the matter is, the only reason I still play TF2 is because I enjoy the constantly shifting nature of the way the game plays. Valve is doing something incredibly exciting here by evolving their game for us over time, for free. And I get mad when people crap on the experiment.

@n00bie51: Your comments are so condescending that I can’t actually read them. I can see you harumphing and angrily composing a post that will thoughtfully index six different past comments you’ve made proving that this is not the case, but you could save yourself a lot of time by just installing a button marked “Prove Plumberduck’s point for him,” and hitting that.

Nobody cares. It’s an argument on the internet; it’s meant to be a meaningless discourse on nothing. Either you think the idea of a Heavy running around with a silly hat is amusing and delightful, or you’re dead inside.

nice one, plumberduck

Once again, I apologize for wanting to have interesting discussion with people over the Internet.

“Increasing the tactical possibilities” isn’t necessarily a good thing either if they make the game more inconsistent. I think the Heavy is already delightful the way he is; Heavy laughs at coward hat!

n00bie,you should probably go back and double-check. My offensive remarks was also obscure references. Link is in my name. I guess the thing is that you dislike TF2 the way it is,and i like it. This is called “utter disagreement”.

What? How the crap was I supposed to know that you telling me to “GTFO/STFU” was some obscure reference in an attempt at humor and not an audaciously offensive attack? To me, it just looked like you were being an insulting jerk, am I missing something here?

The thing is that I liked TF2 for what it was and now that’s changed. If you want to agree to disagree, that’s fine by me, I’ve just simply been expressing my own opinion all this time.

Seriously? All this arguing over TF2?

I am so confused…

Damn these comments not having an edit function.

All of you need to calm down a lot and re-think your arguments - noobie, we get that you’re trying to make a joke regarding the pointlessness of arguing on the Internet you don’t need to keep restating that, I does not help your argument one bit and only succeeds in making you sound immature.
Plumberduck, you need to stop using ad hominem flaws and try to dismantle their arguments rather than attacking the arguers.
And all of you need to stop jumping the bloody conclusions - no one has said they don’t like TF2 or that they want to ban the unlckables, they’ve just said they’re unhappy with the way TF2 is changing away from what it used to be.

Now all of you, please be quiet and leave some positive or funny comments, that’s the point of the comments section! Not to attack each other because of a misunderstanding.

Why did the beastophile cross the road?

Because he was stuck in the chicken

That’s the worst joke ever. Just go kill yourself you unfunny, fat, disgusting pig of a human being.

I played the Zeno Clash demo yesterday. I felt bad all day because it was so DAMN horrible. God. For your own sake people, don’t try it.

“STFU and GTFO” wasn’t a reference (that was simple insult),but fork part was. *sigh*

No more comments from me here. And by the way,

http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/contact.htm

It will be very nice of you to CHECK IT AT LAST.

@Nonomu

Really? I found it to be quite fun.

@Jmborb:

I much prefer mindless ad hominem attacks, thank you very much. They take much less time to think up, less time to type, and they have exactly the same possibility of convincing the other person they’re wrong. (0%).

Also, I don’t even know what ad hominem attacks are.

Sorry OctaneHugo, was that joke a litle to close for comfort?

@ Mr. Brit: Ignore OctaneHugo. That joke was great.

Like all great comedians, I must accept that some morons will struggle with my high brow jokes ;)

I really enjoyed Zeno Clash, I loved the fighting and was leaning into all the blows.

Then it killed my computer, it probably wasn’t the games fault since it’s obviously and hardware fault (only sign of any power in the whole machine is a green light on the motherboard, nothing else) but it’s probably going to be expensive to fix, since I don’t really know what the problem is, I’ll start by replacing the PSU.

I told you not to play this game.

Anyhow, what did you guys like about the game? I found the melee system very boring and the graphics very dull (for some reason I get very low fps too, even on low settings when it looks pretty damn horrible).

@plumberduck
I’ve no idea whether your response was a joke or not - an ad hominem flaw is exactly what it says on the tin, instead of thinking through a counter argument the arguer chooses instead to attack the opposition themselves rather than the opposition’s argument. In most cases this generally makes the argued look stupid and/or overly aggressive, it also draws attention the the fact the arguer hasn’t got an effective counter argument and generally weakens their position in the debate.
So yeah, your response was kind of ironic, also, let me know if you want an example - this is surprisingly helpful revision for my crtical thinking a A-level.

Just re-read my other posts, I feel like chris right now…

Seriously chris, how do you put up with us?

We’ll it’s the first real in-game time I’ve tried melee combat, the other times being very much a case of hit’em with a crowbar till the die. But I quickly got good at it and was dodging, blocking, throwing people into each other. I also enjoyed the weirdness of the whole thing. Other than it murdering my nice new PC I would probably give it a high score.

I was surprised that the Source engine could manage something like this (well, you know other than that other source game with the kicking and the stabby stabby and the magic, but shut up).

You’re right, Jmborb, I was just being defensive against Plumberduck’s remarks, and I agree that for most of the time, the comments section is simply a place for lulzworthy remarks. I appreciate you telling others that to not jump to conclusions and I also affirm that we should “Not to attack each other because of a misunderstanding.”

In closing, farts.

lol farts

I guess I just like repeatedly punching people in the face.

TF2 is phun.

Very true, Robot Bread.

Either I’m getting trolled hard or sarcasm really is hard to detect over “teh interwbz”.

Oh look, it’s a TF2 update!

What’s up with this new TF2 update? Something was downloaded this morning,but there’s nothing new in updates list.

My point exactly, old chum! It’s one of Valve’s “secret” updates.

*que ‘DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNN’ music in the background*

Guys, we need the help of Scooby Doo on this one. SCOOBY DOO AND THE MYSTERY OF THE NEW TEAM FORTRESS UPDATE

Freeman’s Mind Ep. 11

Hop to it people.

I think somebody found they added some weapon related script.

And again, the comments section is at peace. Thank god for Valve and their secret updates.

And farts.

Noobie, you’ve made my day.

The comments section is silent, sure. But deadly!

Just downloaded Broken Steel, and well, let’s just say the name sure fits.

Month silence on TF2 blog broke by 2 posts in 1 day!

click my name to go see :)

plants vs zombies demo ftw.
seriously, not sarcasm. best hour I have had playing a demo.

Yeah, for such a simple little concept, Plants vs Zombies is an amazingly fun little game.

The Plants vs. Zombies Demo sure left a taste for more. But I don’t think I’m gonna buy it.

Is it just me, or was the hinting at the new sniper rifle worse than not actually having an update at all?

Then again, I had TF2 on the 360 once, I can be patient for a long time if I want.

Also, w00t page 3.

Hey, guess what? The Duke Nukem Forever dev team has been SHUT DOWN. That means no Duke Nukem Forever. EVER. More like Duke Nukem ForNEVER.

Well, when you don’t do any work at all for years and years, that happens.

(Insert “Do Not WAAAANT” Vader pic) NOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo………

Chris, please find it in your unfeeling robotic heart to do a post commemorating the loss of the greatness that was 3D Realms. I don’t remember you ever posting about Duke3D, but still, an RIP is in order.

“More like Duke Nukem ForNEVER.”

Oh ho ho! What a fine play on words good fellow!

Hey look I don’t know how Chris’s HTML template works. Probably should have just done it myself.
Anyway here’s the link: ShackNews
The normal way.

Moment of silence.

Don’t worry guys… Duke Nukem Forever will be out… SOON… SOMETIME SOON… YES… JUST WAIT A LITTLE MORE!!!
JUST WAIT!!!