First-Person Shouter

I do like the idea of releasing them a day at a time, and open to everyone. That way we would have less hordes of the new class when it comes out, since they wouldn’t be grinding for achievements, but would instead test out the new weapons. Once the novelty wears off, they’ll go back to their career classes until the next day.

I think doing your #2 would be the best. I know it would get me to play TF2 more often. I hardly ever play any more, apart from when there’s a class update. Distributing the new stuff over a week would make me play each day of the week instead of just the one.

I suppose one exploit of the drops from other players would be people would intentionally die, giving out unlockables to everyone.
I feel the current method is fine- people should work towards the weapons, for a real sense of achievement

Admittedly i am an Achievement box grinder to get the new achievements day of, but i do like that unlocking method. Not necessarily the grind, but the idea that you get the stuff for that class by playing and learning to play that class, It adds a really light RPG element to the game that i like a lot. It probably sounds stupid coming from someone who just grinds them out anyway, but its fun, and it gives even more incentives to the achievements. It also makes the new weapons have that “new toy” feel, even if they’re impractical for your current situation, you still wanna play with them for a while.

I just hope they leave it the same, I really don’t mind it this way, and anyone who really hates it should just suck it up and achievement box it if they need their new unlocks immediately.

the ‘epic drops’ idea is genius.

should just seed with a few regular players. i think the rarer they start off, the better.

Cry some more

:P

I was fine with the current system for the medic, pyro, and heavy because the majority of their achievements you were able to get with the default equipment on any map. Too many of the Scout’s need the unlockables or have to done on a multitude of maps. If they do change it, #2 would be the best way.

On a side note, I have seen a lot more Kritzkreigs, at least on the regular server I play on.

I’ve (almost) figured out how to fix #3!
Check it out: Valve employees automatically have all the weapons , and 20% of people who start a game using the updated class within two hours of it’s release, receive one at random.

If someone using the updated class kills someone with one of the new weapons, using a weapon of the same type, playing as the same class, then that person gets the updated version after respawning. (By picking it up, they’ve asserted that they want to use it, at least for that match)

To ensure no one purposefully self-sacrifices to give others the weapons, how about making it so that each person can only “give away” three weapons per round, and people who receive the weapon can only “give away” one per round. Not a perfect solution, but whatever.

I would delight in killing people and taking their stuff, something that TF2 sorely lacks, besides picking up weapons for ammo. An implementation:

The unlocks are given to 1% to 5% of all players, either randomly, or the best 1%-5%. Or, even better, tie it into the theme of the pack. For the Spy, it would be the people with the most backstabs; for the Engineer, most buildings.

Rather than it being whoever picks it up, which would be fairly arbitrary given the instant dogpile which will mob anybody wielding an unlock, give it to whoever kills them in a certain manner. With a melee weapon, with a taunt, with a physics object, with a Backburner crit-kill, whatever. It could be just one, it could rotate, or you could only get unlock X using method Y. You can only get the upgraded rocket launcher by killing its user with a reflected crit rocket, etc.

It would be a pretty trivial exploit to not give your attackers the unlocks by not wielding them. This could be solved by either 1.) Giving the attacker the unlock even if the target isn’t wielding it, or 2.) Making the initial unlock voluntary.

Say, when the update goes live, pop up a window to the chosen user that they have been Chosen to receive the unlocks first, before anyone else, but if they accept, everyone and their dog will be gunning for them. This allows them to back out gracefully, and if the problem proves to be bad enough in playtesting, allows them to give up the unlocks at any point after.

Giving up unlocks would presumably share code with the ability to forsake high scores, which you talked about in a 1fort post. Personally, I’ve got a 45 point high score as a Soldier, from playing on a 100% crit server which I feel pretty bad about.

Anyway, the mental image I get from a crowd of backburner-wielding Pyros dropping everything to chase after a lone, unlock-wielding spy is golden.

I like the epic drops idea, but instead of actually gaining the weapon permanently, you just keep it for your current life, like to give you a taste of the weapon, and then you’d really want to get the achievements to get the weapon.
Unless, you’re some halfway lazy guy who just aims for the guy with the good gun and end up dying more than the amount of seconds you play with the weapon/

Alright, now i know this would never ever happen, because too many people would bitch, but what if the new weapons were like items? That is to say, when a player with one is killed, it is passed on to the first person to pick it up, or his killer. They would be distributed to lets say the first person to reach 10 kills each round on a specific map. This could do the same thing for unused maps that the items do for unused classes. You could carry them from map to map, server to server. This way, there would be less grinding, and a lot more playing. Just a thought.

I think the staged unlocks might work best if everybody got one of the three items at random after, say, five achievements, and the rest were gained via killing someone with that other item.

That way, you get at least some of the update even if no-one has the initial drops, the achievement requirement is waivable, a certain amount of luck is added, and chaos reigns.

It would require a bit more content, but it might be interesting to do it the way S4 does. In that, to unlock the weapons, you play a brief little tutorial example that explains their use and gives you a chance to noodle around with it in a sandboxly setting before gaining access to it for matches proper.

The downside to this is that each download pack now requires Valve to also come up with interesting bits of mini-content in addition to the unlocks themselves. But the interesting mini-content would likely be properly interesting. (Unlike S4s license scenarios, which are almost uniformly uninspired and mediocre.)

I heartily support this event or product.

I support Epic Drops. You never even mentioned the people who would just like to help other people get the items; or the people who are just too stupid to keep it to themselves deliberately.

I think the whole problem would be solved by either (1) reducing the number of achievements required to unlock, or (2) create a small subset of weapon-specific achievements that are relatively easy to complete. As for (2), quite a few already exist, so Valve could just create a few more of the “nearly accidental” variety.

I like the Epic Drops idea too; in conjunction with it though, I think there should be a way to purchase individual weapons (not with real money, of course). That way an experienced player could have immediate access to them, and start dropping them for others; and players could simply buy a harder-to-find item.

Epic drop mixed with the current system of achievement unlock to cater to most crowds? If you want it badly enough you’ll work for it, but if you happen to see someone else with it you can snatch it up quick. I’d also include pick-ups being class-based: You can’t get Bonk! added to your list if you’re playing a Heavy, and it would encourage players to switch classes on a regular basis if they see a weapon on the field they want.

I heartily endorse the Epic Drops idea. It would be hilarious, and especially fitting because stinking spies and snipers would have the most challenging time getting theirs.

Stinking spies and snipers…

(Except on Balloon Race, of course, where spies are nerfed and snipers are ubiquitous)

I don’t have a link, but an update to TF2 just came out. adds something called a “duck timer”

A curious idea “epic drops”.
But I think some bad things would happen if it was used.

I say just tie it to time played in a class. That way the new weapons are rewards for the only thing that will make players learn a class, by playing it.

5 hours for the first unlock, 15 for the second, and 40 for the last. Chances are for the average player at least one or two classes will be past 40 hours, meaning you will get the unlocks immediately for the class you play the most.

Only problem with implementing this system now is that many people will suddenly lose some unlocks. Still, better to do it now than when all the unlocks are out.

epic drops FTW!

I say tie it to our scores. They track everything else in the game, so why not our scores at the end of all the matches we play. Then just say that the first unlock comes after 10,000 points are scored, the second at 25,000 and the third at 50,000 or so.

Here’s what they do: Combine #3 with how it is now. So you can either do achievements or pick up a drop. That way, you’re not locked out of weapons if your server lacks spies, and you can always grind achievements the day the pack comes out to get the weapons immediately. That also solves the problem of how the weapons get into the game in the first place.

Honestly, I like the current system…I usually barely care about achievements, and as such only get a “oh, neat” reaction when I gain them in most other games…however, in TF2, I get an achievement and I think “Oh, sweet! A little bit closer to that next weapon…”

This goes for Halo 3 too–you need to do certain stuff to unlock the special armor, which is the only reason I’m trying to get the skulls right now. Extra challenge+Gamerpoints? pffft. Give me ODST armor please.

@Ronin: What about bragging rights? That’s the only reason I carried that damn gnome through Episode 2.

I just like them the way they are…:(

@Upsilon

If you can carry that damn gnome through Episode 2 sir, then I salute you. Personally, I don’t really get a lot out of bragging rights when it comes to achievements in video games…I have more fun bragging about specific little instances where the game forces me to do something I didn’t think I could do, rather then setting a goal for me to optionally achieve.

Example: Halo 3, (Forgive me for repeatedly citing this game…), playing CTF on the big snow map…we’re only doing so-so, me and this random guy hop on a warthog (jeep with gun, for those not familiar with Halo vehicles), and head for their base. Some fancy adrenaline-rushed driving on his part gets us by the huge crowd of enemies outside our base, and we get to theirs. Without too much communication, I get word to him to take the jet-powered jump that launches you into the enemy base. He drives the warthog INTO the jump, we fly in, he grabs the flag, and we make our way back to our base through some caves in another adrenaline-filled gunfight, where we got some backup and were able to capture the flag.

No achievements, but it was a hell of a lot of fun, and I’d rather do that then try and drag the gnome all the way across Episode 2. (after reading Pentadact’s post on his quest to do it, I totally abandoned the thought after his description of the car sequence and the gnome.) Also was more fun than trying to obsessively get the Halo 3 achievements, (which, so far, the three I’ve gotten that are combat related I received entirely in the single player.)

(Note, not knocking on Half Life 2, as certainly for every “rawk” moment I’ve had in Halo 3 multiplayer, I’ve had 9 involving a prepubescent player screaming profanities that would make a sailor cringe.)

I really like the idea of epic drops. It’s fresh and creative. Here’s what I was thinking along those lines

A shop where you use in game currency to buy the base items. As you play using the items, the negatives are reduced a little, and the positives are raised (for example, the force-a-nature would fire more pellets, do a little more damage, and kick more). Alternatively, you could loot it off of another player, but it would have negative scores because it was looted (as with the first example, but less damage, less kick, and less spread because it has already been used and abused), but could be replaced by your own store bought model. If you do however decide to keep your looted one, if you gather say, 5, you could preform a Fallout 3 style repair where you merge them all into one item using scrapped parts from each, there by eliminating all negatives and bringing it to factory standard. Just an idea ^_^

REgarding your Drops idea. Perhaps what they could do is like, make it so if you pick up a unlockable weapon that you ain’t got yet, you can use it for the rest of your life or something. Or any unlockable weapon that you have and haven’t got.

I remember in an episode of “Control Point” where they stated that the new unlocks are more like alternatives rather than upgrades. I think if that is so, tying unlocks to a reward system is a rather shitty set-up in my opinion.

Having them out right off the bat should reiterate the idea that the new goodies are new ways to play our favorite classes and I support the idea of uncoupling achievements and unlocks 100%.

Getting the weapons should be connected to being good at using the previous weapon, or being good at playing the class, not general fragging. General fragging doesn’t exploit the classes of Team Fortress 2. Maybe there should be weapons specific achievements that must be completed to obtain its updated version. Something like:
- Deploy two ubercharges in a row without dying.
- Perform five backstabs in a row without dying.
- Kill a spy that just sapped one of your buildings, with your wrench.
And it would be even better if it was somehow connected to the capabilities of the new weapon. So to unlock the KGB you would have to crit fist kill an enemy. And to get the flaregun, you would have to kill someone from 10 meters away, with your shotgun.

@RC-1290′Dreadnought’
I think that’s the best idea I’ve heard yet.

Tie 5 weapon-specific achievements to each unlock. You can get the unlocks in any order you want, but each achievement is centered around using that specific weapon in some way, and being proficient enough in using that weapon that you then “earn” the upgrade for it. That makes 15 achievements for the unlocks, and then they could throw in another 20 or whatever stupid, grind em out, heinous achievements for the hardcore people to get.

Normally, I have no problem with the way it works now, and I generally consider people that want the unlock system changed to be whiners with an “I Need It Now!” mentality, and entitlement issues. But this is the first suggestion that seems a reasonable compromise, and actually makes me more excited about the unlocks.

How about there is a “Drop” gamemode? People with unlocked weapons are on one team, people without on the other. They battle it out.

I like the current system best. Grinding out achievements in achievement boxes may seem like it defeats the purpose, but I think it’s created mroe of a community atmosphere to the game. When I first tried out an achievement box, it was interesting to note the different groups that were forming around everyone getting one achievement. It was inspiring in a way to see red and blue players talking to each other instead of constantly trying to blow each other to bits. On top of that it was kinda funny when every once in a while some moron would join the server and just start shooting everyone for the fun of it, then someone would try to kill him, then everyone would start shooting and the community would deteriorate, until all the morons left and things would calm down. The 7 or 8 consecutive hours I spent in those first boxes were among my more memorable times playing the game. And so far the scout achievement boxes have been the most fun, if only because the scout is the funniest class. BONK!

Epic Drops sounds like the best idea ever, is not stupid :P. I really hope that happens!

Epic drops is a creative idea, but I can’t imagine it would ever be balanced. The week of the scout update, I refused to play medic for more than a life or two in a row, simply because the massive number of scouts made it damn near impossible to have any fun. I’d feel the same way if everyone were gunning for me to grab my unlocks, and switch inventory or class to get away from it.

Your second suggestion is pretty good, but it doesn’t cover the person who skips a couple days of play, and only drops in when two or three new weapons are available. I think it’s important for each individual player to get the unlocks one at a time, and have a while to learn and adjust to the intricacies of each.

Personally, I think the achievement system works really well, so long as the achievements are carefully designed. I think the pyro pack did it best: I never felt like I was behaving ‘out of character’ for the class, and got a steady stream of achievements that gradually unlocked the weapons I wanted. The heavy pack also did a great job with this.

The reason people are complaining so loudly now is because the scout had badly-designed achievements. They’re very conditional, requiring specific game modes, particular loadouts for yourself and other players, rare positioning… heck, one achievement only works on a single map and is only available once a round! They need to plot out the progression of the achievements a lot more carefully.

The same as what your third idea was, but instead of immediately receiving the weapon for good, you’d need to at least return to a supply locker/spawn point to then permanently keeping it. Others will still be able to kill you and pick up your weapons, though.

Maybe you wouldn’t receive the entire weapon immediately when you first pick it up for #3. Instead you can pick up a certain amount of the same weapons or get all three weapons before being able to use any of them. This I think will prevent everything from spreading at godspeed overnight or some short period of time.

I actually heard them talking about such system. I’m not kidding

I didn’t really have a problem with the Heavy, Pyro, or Medic unlocks - most of them can be grinded away with enough persistence.

I do however, have a problem with the Scout unlocks. Because a good deal of the unlocks can only be achieved….. with an unlockable weapon!

Not only that, but the scout achievements just seem…. somewhat harder to get. You can’t really grind for many of them (without losing your sanity), which means that I actually have to be GOOD at being a scout.

Given that scout is my most hated of classes, I will probably never bother with getting the unlocks.

Sorry, meant “a good deal of the achievments necessary for an unlock…. can only be achieved with an unlockable weapon!”

I’d leave the system as it is, except make it more sensibe achievements that would involve more playing the game in a new way that would encourage to play that class a bit differently then normal, but also few achievements for normal playing, and then a few hard-to-get achievements that wouldn’t be necessary for the unlocks, but would work for bragging rights.

I’m fine with the current system, although I do agree the scouts achievements are too closely tied to the unlockable (read:locked) equipment. If nothing else they could have been sorted by your ability to complete them rather than alphabetically in the achievement menu. I hate scrolling through a bunch of stuff I have to part-read before realising I can’t even do.

If I had to pick an alternate way, buying from a shop using team point tokens or something would be cool, and it would allow Valve to add new stuff as they wanted rather than having a big release for each class before considering, say, adding a new medigun. Or hats.

There’s no way they’re going to give up the massive class pack releases. They’re a PR goldmine.

I don’t have any problem with how the unlocks were released in the past but it seemed like the Scout Pack achievements didn’t encourage and reward regular play as much as the previous packs. A friend of mine has been doing some Pyro unlocks since the scout pack came out and the type of achievements he’s getting generally relate to either killing or ambushing and lighting and enemy on fire. The Scout pack on the other hand had too many achievements focused on learning the new unlocks abilities or completing weird tasks. Finishing the Medic Pack made me a better medic, I didn’t feel that way about the Scout one…

I like Option 3, but just for the Scout pack, as they are the hardest achievements i have ever come across. I wouldn’t like it for the Medic, Pyro and Heavy packs.